Tag Archives: San Francisco

Crime – Releases

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This index features only vinyl and includes official releases


A. Releases

1. Crime ‎– Hot Wire My Heart / Baby You’re So Repulsive
Label: Crime Music
Catalog Number: sac 0188
Format: Vinyl, 7″, 45 RPM, Single
Released: 1976

Notes: 1000 copies on black vinyl with picture sleeve; reissued in 1991 and 2012.

Tracklist
A ‎– Hot Wire My Heart
B ‎– Baby You’re So Repulsive

2. Crime ‎– Frustration / Murder By Guitar
Label: Crime Music
Catalog Number: 777
Format: Vinyl, 7″, 45 RPM, Single
Released: July 1977

Notes: 1000 black vinyl copies including 200-250 copies with picture sleeve. Recorded at Mills College Recording Studio in Oakland

Tracklist
A ‎– Frustration
B ‎– Murder By Guitar

3. Crime ‎– Gangster Funk / Maserati
Label: B-Square Records
Catalog Number: BSQ-001
Format: Vinyl, 7″, 45 RPM, Single
Released: 1980

Notes: 1000 black vinyl copies with picture sleeve (some with lyric insert). Recorded at Different Fur Studios

Tracklist
A ‎– Gangster Funk
B ‎– Maserati

4. Crime ‎– San Francisco’s Doomed
Label: Solar Lodge Records
Catalog Number: DOOMED 2
Format: Vinyl, LP, 33 1/3, Compilation
Released: 1990

Notes: Tracks A1 to A11 recorded at His Master’s Wheels Recordings in March 1978, Tracks B1 to B9 recorded at Time and Space in 1979.
Limited edition of 1000 copies.

Tracklist
A1 ‎– Frustration
A2 ‎– Crime Wave
A3 ‎– I Knew This Nurse
A4 ‎– San Francisco’s Doomed
A5 ‎– Rock ‘n’ Roll Enemy No. 1
A6 ‎– Piss On Your Dog
A7 ‎– Feel The Beat
A8 ‎– I Stupid Anyway
A9 ‎– Twisted
A10 ‎– Murder By Guitar
A11 ‎– Instrumental Instrumental
B1 ‎– Flyeater
B2 ‎– Rockabilly Drugstore
B3 ‎– Dillinger’s Brain
B4 ‎– Flipout
B5 ‎– Emergency Music Ward
B6 ‎– Monkey On Your Back
B7 ‎– Yakuza
B8 Rockin’ Weird
B9 Samurai

Crime

Crime was an early American punk band from San Francisco. The band was formed in 1976 by Johnny Strike (vocals, guitar), Frankie Fix (vocals, guitar), Ron “The Ripper” Greco (bass; ex-Flamin’ Groovies), and Ricky Tractor (Ricky Williams) (drums). Their debut, the self-financed double A-side, “Hot Wire My Heart” and “Baby You’re So Repulsive”, appeared at the end of 1976, and is the first single released by a U.S. punk act from the West Coast.

The band’s sound was characterized by simple rock-and-roll arrangements played at intensely high volumes. Michael Goldberg, critic for New York Rocker magazine, wrote in 1978: “Crime play loud. So loud that the plate glass window at the opposite end of the club shakes, tables tremble and people hang onto their drinks. Loudness may be Crime’s only musical raison d’etre. This band is a literal translation of the concept ‘minimal.’ Drummer Hank Rank thumps out a simple Bo Diddley beat that is only adequate in the context of the rest of the band. Bassist Ron the Ripper coaxes a thick rumble from his amp that reminds one of the thunder of a bulldozer rolling over rugged terrain. And the guitar playing of [Johnny] Strike and Frankie Fix make you feel like you’ve been forcefully held underwater for the full 25 minutes of the set.”

In Issue #13 of Ugly Things Magazine, critic Mike Stax wrote: “CRIME’s music didn’t conform to the norm either. They didn’t use the standard-issue highspeed buzzsaw guitar approach. Instead their noisy attacks were an unpredictable stew of clanging, howling guitars and shuddering rhythms – more of an intense sonic RUMBLE than anything else.”


Show List and Key Dates – This index features show dates, venues, and flyers


Releases – This index features only vinyl and includes official releases

Unofficial Releases – This index features only vinyl and includes unofficial recordings


Line-ups
In the following years Crime changed their line-up several times.

Ricky Tractor was fired (later appearing in groups such as Flipper, Toiling Midgets and The Sleepers) and was succeeded by Brittley Black (Larry Black) in 1977. After releasing one single, another double A-side, “Frustration” and “Murder by Guitar”, Black was replaced by Hank Rank (Henry Rosenthal) that same year.

In 1979, Greco left the band and was replaced by Joey D’Kaye (Joey Swails) on bass, who had been the band’s sound engineer.

Greco and Black both returned for Crime’s last release, the single “Maserati/Gangster Funk” in 1981, while D’Kaye moved to synthesizers and produced the recording.

The band split up the following year. Strike and D’Kaye briefly formed a electropunk duo called Vector Command, while Fix attempted to start a solo career, with a back-up band called The Rockabilly Rebels. Neither produced any record releases at the time.

Ricky Tractor died in 1992, Frankie Fix in 1996, Brittley Black in 2004 and Johnny Strike in 2018.

Recordings and media
Over the course of their career in the late 1970s and early 1980s, Crime officially only released three 7″ vinyl records. But many bootleg recordings of the band’s live performances and demo tapes were sporadically produced throughout the 1980s.

San Francisco’s Doomed, a collection of studio recordings and rehearsal tapes, was released with the approval of the band members by Solar Lodge in the United Kingdom in 1991 on vinyl and CD. Fix, Strike and Rank played on all the songs, with Greco playing bass on side one of the LP, and D’Kaye on side two.[9] The album was re-released as San Francisco’s Still Doomed (with added tracks and remastering) in 2004 by Swami Records.

In 1979 San Francisco video company Target Video produced Crime: Live in San Quentin Prison, a documentary of a live performance by the band at San Quentin State Penitentiary in California, where they played for the prisoners wearing exact copies of the uniforms worn by the prison guards.

Sonic Youth featured a cover of “Hot Wire My Heart” on their 1987 release Sister.

Electric Frankenstein featured a cover of “Frustration” on their 1993 release “Action High / Sick Songs”.

In January 2010, a book of Crime’s early photographs and posters, The Band Crime: Punk ’77 Revisited by James Stark, was
published by Last Gasp Books.

In July 2013, a compilation album of unreleased studio recordings, Murder by Guitar: 1976 to 1980, was released on the Kitten Charmer label, remastered under the direction of Strike, Rank and D’Kaye and released on CD and iTunes. After distribution problems with the LP record release, the album was re-released in August 2014 by the Superior Viaduct label, with a limited release of the first 500 on clear red vinyl. The album has garnered mostly positive reviews, including “four-stars” by UK music magazine MOJO, which wrote: “This important release restates CRIME’s place in the punk pantheon and fills in the history of a lost pop moment. It also celebrates the diversity of the proto-punk groups: that fascinating moment when change was at hand but the rules were not yet set. Murder By Guitar is a testament to that sense of discovery.” MOJO also rated the album as one of the “10 Best Reissues of 2014”.

In a 2007 interview with Resonance Magazine, Johnny Strike stated a boxed set of Crime recordings was to be released by a Spanish label. In March 2015, Munster Records released the box set, Crime – 7×7 with seven 45 RPM singles replicating those that had been released by the band and including several unreleased tracks.

The Nuns – Unofficial Releases

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This index features only vinyl and includes recordings of the original band


1. The Nuns ‎– Gimme Danger
Label: Out Of Darkness Records
Catalog Number: OTD 004
Format: Vinyl, 12″, 33 1/3 RPM LP
Released: 1992

Notes: Recorded live at Mabuhay Gardens in San Francisco in 1977.

Tracklist
A1 ‎– Media Control
A2 ‎– Fat Girls
A3 ‎– Savage
A4 ‎– Gettin’ Vicious
A5 ‎– 14 Year Old Baby
A6 ‎– Gimme Danger
A7 ‎– Suicide Child
B1 ‎– Monotonous
B2 ‎– Cock In My Pocket
B3 ‎– Human Being
B4 ‎– Confused
B5 ‎– Gettin’ Straight
B6 ‎– Decadent Jew
B7 ‎– No Solution
B8 ‎– Seduction Destruction
B9 ‎– Child Molester
B10 ‎– You Bother Me

2. The Nuns ‎– CBS Demo 1977
Label: Mabuhay Records
Catalog Number: MB77b
Format: Vinyl, 12″, 33 1/3 RPM, LP
Released: 2017

Notes: Recorded live in studio for CBS album deal in San Francisco in 1977. Limited to 100 handnumbered copies in silkscreen cover on red vinyl including limited poster.

Tracklist
A1 ‎– World War 3
A2 ‎– Gettin Straight
A3 ‎– Savage
A4 ‎– 21 Century
A5 ‎– Going Down
A6 ‎– Media Control
A7 ‎– Talk Talk
B1 ‎– Decadent Jew
B2 ‎– Poor Little Rich Thing
B3 ‎– Chicks
B4 ‎– Child Molester
B5 ‎– Like All The Rest
B6 ‎– Suicide Child

The Nuns – Releases

>> return to The Nuns page >>

This index features only vinyl and includes official releases by the original band between 1978 and 1980


1. The Nuns ‎– The Nuns
Label: 415 Records
Catalog Number: SUB 01
Format: Vinyl, 7″, 45 RPM, EP
Released: 1978

Notes: “Savage” is a different (rougher) version than the one on the self-titled LP. All tracks recorded live at Keystone in Palo Alto in early March 1977.

Tracklist
A1 ‎– Decadent Jew
A2 ‎– Savage
B ‎– Suicide Child

2. Los Nuns ‎– The Beat / Media Control
Label: Rosco Records
Catalog Number: SS-7901
Format: Vinyl, 7″, 45 RPM, Single
Released: 1979

Notes: Rosco Records production; Jennifer Miro does not appear on this single.

Tracklist
A ‎– Media Control
B ‎– The Beat

3. The Nuns ‎– World War III / Cock In My Pocket
Label: Rosco Records
Catalog Number: 4166
Format: Vinyl, 7″, 45 RPM, Single
Released: 1980

Notes: Comes in a rubber-stamped (the band’s name) plain white sleeve with printed insert; some copies have the vinyl labels transposed.

Tracklist
A ‎– World War III
B ‎– Cock In My Pocket

4. The Nuns ‎– The Nuns
Label: BOMP!
Catalog Number: BLP 4010
Format: Vinyl, 12″, 33 1/3 RPM, LP
Released: 1980

Notes: Recorded in May 1980 at Brian Elliot Recording in North Hollywood. Issued jointly by BOMP! and Posh Boy and with different simultaneous releases with center labels from both record labels.

Tracklist
A1 ‎– Savage
A2 ‎– Media Control
A3 ‎– Wold War III
A4 ‎– You Think You’re The Best
A5 ‎– Walkin’ The Beat
B1 ‎– Wild
B2 ‎– Getting Straight
B3 ‎– Confused
B4 ‎– Child Molester
B5 ‎– Suicide Child
B6 ‎– Lazy

The Nuns – Show List and Key Dates

>> return to The Nuns page >>

This index will attempt to gather show dates and flyers for all appearances


1976

Date: December 1976
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

1977

Date: February 22, 1977
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: February 23, 1977
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: March 01, 1977
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: March 06, 1977
Venue: Stop Sign
Location: Berkeley

Date: March 07, 1977
Venue: Keystone
Location: Palo Alto

Date: March 16, 1977
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: March 31, 1977
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: April 06, 1977
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: April 12, 1977
Venue: Boarding House
Location: San Francisco

Date: April 13, 1977
Venue: Boarding House
Location: San Francisco

Date: April 28, 1977
Venue: Keystone
Location: Berkeley

Date: May 13, 1977
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: May 20, 1977
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: June 11, 1977
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: June 11, 1977
Venue: Winterland
Location: San Francisco

Date: June 12, 1977
Venue: Rio Theatre
Location: Rodeo, CA

Date: June 18, 1977
Venue: Rio Theatre
Location: Rodeo, CA

Date: July 08, 1977
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: July 09, 1977
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: July 25, 1977
Venue: Whisky-a-Go-Go
Location: West Hollywood

Date: July 26, 1977
Venue: Whisky-a-Go-Go
Location: West Hollywood

Date: July 27, 1977
Venue: Whisky-a-Go-Go
Location: West Hollywood

Date: July 28, 1977
Venue: Whisky-a-Go-Go
Location: West Hollywood

Date: July 30, 1977
Venue: Winterland
Location: San Francisco

Date: July 31, 1977
Venue: Keystone
Location: Berkeley

Date: August 01, 1977
Venue: Keystone
Location: Berkeley

Date: August 19, 1977
Venue: Old Waldorf
Location: San Francisco

Date: August 20, 1977
Venue: Old Waldorf
Location: San Francisco

Date: August 28, 1977
Venue: California Hall
Location: San Francisco

Date: September 02, 1977
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: September 03, 1977
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: September 08, 1977
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: September 09, 1977
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: September 20, 1977
Venue: Old Waldorf
Location: San Francisco

Date: September 21, 1977
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: September 21, 1977
Venue: Old Waldorf
Location: San Francisco (?)

Date: October 31, 1977
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: November 24, 1977
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: November 26, 1977
Venue: Keystone
Location: Berkeley

Date: December 03, 1977
Venue: Whisky-a-Go-Go
Location: West Hollywood

Date: December 21, 1977
Venue: Masque
Location: Hollywood

Date: December 22, 1977
Venue: Whisky-a-Go-Go
Location: West Hollywood

Date: December 23, 1977
Venue: Whisky-a-Go-Go
Location: West Hollywood

Date: December 24, 1977
Venue: Whisky-a-Go-Go
Location: West Hollywood

1978

Date: January 14, 1978
Venue: Winterland
Location: San Francisco

Date: February 24, 1978
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: March 21, 1978
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: March 31, 1978
Venue: Keystone
Location: Berkeley

Date: April 22, 1978
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: May 26, 1978
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: May 27, 1978
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: June 04, 1978
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: June 22, 1978
Venue: Whisky-a-Go-Go
Location: West Hollywood

Date: June 23, 1978
Venue: Whisky-a-Go-Go
Location: West Hollywood

Date: June 24, 1978
Venue: Whisky-a-Go-Go
Location: West Hollywood

Date: June 26, 1978
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: July 01, 1978
Venue: Keystone
Location: Berkeley

Date: July 03, 1978
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: July 18, 1978
Venue: CBGB’s
Location: New York

Date: July 19, 1978
Venue: CBGB’s
Location: New York

Date: July 31, 1978
Venue: Hurrah’s
Location: New York

Date: August 01, 1978
Venue: Hurrah’s
Location: New York

Date: August 02, 1978
Venue: Hurrah’s
Location: New York

Date: August 09, 1978
Venue: Max’s Kansas City
Location: New York

Date: August 10, 1978
Venue: Max’s Kansas City
Location: New York

Date: August 24, 1978
Venue: CBGB’s
Location: New York

Date: August 25, 1978
Venue: CBGB’s
Location: New York

Date: August 26, 1978
Venue: CBGB’s
Location: New York

Date: August 30, 1978
Venue: Max’s Kansas City
Location: New York

Date: August 31, 1978
Venue: Max’s Kansas City
Location: New York

Date: September 22, 1978
Venue: Club 57
Location: Irving Plaza, New York

Date: October 20, 1978
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: October 21, 1978
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: November 03, 1978
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: November 04, 1978
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

Date: December 01, 1978
Venue: Mabuhay Gardens
Location: San Francisco

The Nuns

The band formed in 1975 in Marin County, California when Alejandro Escovedo and Jeff Olener, who were film students at College of Marin, wanted to make a low-budget film about a strung-out rock singer and a band that could not play its instruments, and decided to play the part themselves. This project evolved into The Nuns. While the band was in its formative phase, they practiced in a warehouse in Terra Linda.

The Nuns backstage at the Mabuhay Gardens in 1977. Photo © by Chester Simpson.

Jennifer Miro, who was in a Mill Valley-based band that covered Doobie Brothers songs, practiced at the same warehouse. Olener soon invited Miro to join his band; Miro, who was unhappy with the band she was in, jumped at the opportunity. The Nuns began performing around various venues in the San Francisco area in January 1976. They were the among the first punk bands in California and had difficulty finding regular venues. They played the first punk show at the Mabuhay Gardens in December 1976, and quickly became regulars. At their peak of popularity, they were playing two sold-out shows on consecutive weekend nights at the Mabuhay.

In January 1978, together with The Avengers they opened for the Sex Pistols at their final concert at San Francisco’s Winterland. Even though The Nuns were the bigger draw in San Francisco at this time, they were the first band to go on, ahead of The Avengers. A third band, Negative Trend, had been directly recruited by the Sex Pistols but were tricked by Bill Graham into accepting the slot after the Sex Pistols, the house now emptied of fans. The Nuns split in 1979 soon after the band was on tour in New York City.


Show List and Key Dates – This index features show dates, venues, and flyers


Releases – This index features only vinyl and includes official releases by the original band between 1978 and 1980

Unofficial Releases – This index features only vinyl and includes recordings of the original band


 

415 Records – Discography

415 Records ‎– Discography

This index will cover the label’s earliest releases


A. Singles and EPs (7″)

1. The Offs ‎– Everyone’s A Bigot / 0°
Label: 415 Records
Catalog Number: 911×39
Format: Vinyl, 7″, 45 RPM, Single
Released: 1978

Notes: Some copies came with an Insert


2. The Nuns ‎– The Nuns
Label: 415 Records
Catalog Number: SUB 01
Format: Vinyl, 7″, 45 RPM, EP
Released: 1978

Notes: “Savage” is a different (rougher) version than the one on the self-titled LP. All tracks recorded live at Keystone Palo Alto, early march 1977.

3. The Impostors ‎– Night Time T.V.
Label: 415 Records
Catalog Number: #3
Format: Vinyl, 7″, 45 RPM, EP
Released: 1979




4. Pearl Harbor And The Explosions ‎– Drivin’
Label: 415 Records
Catalog Number: none
Format: Vinyl, 7″, 45 RPM, Single
Released: June 1979




5. SVT ‎– Heart Of Stone
Label: 415 Records
Catalog Number: S0005
Format: Vinyl, 7″, 45 RPM, Single
Released: 1979

Notes: Side 1 recorded at Tewksbury Sound in December 1978; Side A recorded at Different Fur in June 1979.


6. The Mutants ‎– New Dark Ages
Label: 415 Records
Catalog Number: 34859
Format: Vinyl, 7″, 45 RPM, EP
Released: 1980

Notes: Three versions issued (no priority): green logo version (shown) has a large juke-box style hole and the logo on the front reads “THE MUTANTS”; red logo version has a small spindle hole and the front reads “the MUTANTs*”, version with no extra color screen printing reads “MUTNTS”, like the label.

7. Baby Buddha ‎– Stand By Your Man
Label: 415 Records
Catalog Number: none
Format: Vinyl, 7″, 45 RPM, 33 ⅓ RPM, Promo
Released: 1980

Notes: Promo “Not For Sale or Airplay”


8. The Impostors! ‎– Don’t Get Mad / It’s Better This Way
Label: 415 Records
Catalog Number: none
Format: Vinyl, 7″, 45 RPM, Single
Released: 1980




9. Jo Allen And The Shapes ‎– Cryin’ Over You / Lowlife
Label: 415 Records
Catalog Number: S-0008
Format: Vinyl, 7″, 45 RPM, Single
Released: 1980

10. VKTMS ‎– 100% White Girl / No Long Good-Byes
Label: 415 Records
Catalog Number: S-0010
Format: Vinyl, 7″, 45 RPM, Single
Released: 1980


B. LPs and EPs (12″)

1. SVT ‎– Extended Play
Label: 415 Records
Catalog Number: A0002
Format: Vinyl, 12″, 33 1/3 RPM, EP
Released: 1980

2. Units ‎– Digital Stimulation
Label: 415 Records
Catalog Number: A-0003
Format: Vinyl, 12″, 33 1/3, LP
Released: 1980


C. Compilations (all vinyl formats)

1. Various ‎– 415 Music
Label: 415 Records
Catalog Number: A0001
Format: Vinyl, 12″, 33 1/3 RPM, LP
Released: 1980

Notes: Contributors include: Readymades, Times 5, The Mutants, 391, Sudden Fun, The Donuts, SVT, The Symptonms, The VIPs, Jo Allen and the Shapes, The Offs.

415 Records

415 Records was a San Francisco record label created in 1978. The label focused its efforts on local punk rock and new wave music acts of the late 1970s through the late 1980s, including The Offs, The Nuns, The Units, Romeo Void, and Wire Train. Its name, pronounced four-one-five (not four-fifteen), was a play on both the telephone area code for the San Francisco area and the California penal code section for disturbing the peace (indeed, in some promotional material, the phrase “disturbing the peace” was written underneath the 415 logo). The label had a productive partnership with Columbia Records from 1981 until shortly before it was sold in 1989 to Sandy Pearlman, who retitled the label Popular Metaphysics.


Discography [coming soon]


History
415 Records was founded in San Francisco in 1978 by entrepreneurs Howie Klein, Chris Knab, and Butch Bridges. Klein was a writer and entertainment promoter, Knab owned an eclectic record store in the Noe Valley section of San Francisco Aquarius Records, and Bridges was a music collector and retailer. Klein and Knab had become friends when Klein did some photography for his friend Harvey Milk, whose camera store was next door to Knab’s Aquarius Records on Castro Street. They worked together on various radio shows around the Bay Area, including an alternative radio show on KSAN, and they started recording and promoting local musicians out of Knab’s record store.

Klein ran the label from a tiny office on 16th Street in the Mission, a district of San Francisco, where he kept a pushpin-covered United States map on his wall, bearing a sign that read, “All Bands on Tour All the Time.” Klein used his own late-night weekend radio shows to showcase his artist’s records and he promoted them all over the country to nightclubs, record stores, and a newly blossoming array of other alternative radio stations. His artists were part of the 1980s San Francisco rock underground, though Klein leaned more toward the accessible, fun, new wave bands than the thrash metal and hard-core punk bands who were also part of that scene. 415 was the first North American record label to focus on punk and new wave music and they featured mostly musicians from the San Francisco region, though the label eventually also included artists from other areas. The British label Stiff Records had done similarly two years earlier; marketing England’s emergent 1970s pub rock scene as punk and new wave and releasing their first record in August 1976.

415’s first release was a 1978 single by The Offs, entitled Everyone’s a Bigot, with 0° on the B-side (cat#911-39, 1978). Subsequent early releases included 7″ EPs by SVT (cat#S0005, 1979), The Nuns (cat#SUB01, 1979),and Pearl Harbor and the Explosions Drivin’ (uncatalogued, 1979). Later records included a 7″ by The Mutants (cat#34859, 1980), an album by The Units (cat#A0003, 1980), a 12″ 33⅓ RPM album by Romeo Void (cat# 415A-0007, 1981), a mini-album by New Math (cat#A0008, 1981), and various other releases for many other bands.